Gode råd omkring hvide pletter søges

Nu her havldelen af fiskene i min 260L balje, været hård ramt af hvidepletter (fiskedræber) i en lille uges tid. jeg har behandlet med Faunamor min det har ikke haft nogen effekt 🙁 Så igår var jeg hos min fiskepusher i et andet erinde, og spurgte om han havde nogen råd. han anbefalede at jeg jeg lavede et stort vandskifte og prøvede med faunamor igen, i dobbelt dosis. dette gjorde jeg så igår aftes. og er netop nu kommet hjem fra arbejde men det har heller ikke nogen effekt, det er snarere blevet være 🙁



har i nogen gode råd 😀

hej det forsvinder ikke bare lige på 1 dag.

Jeg ville forsætte med at behandle fiskene. og evt. hæve temperaturen til 30 grader (hvis fiskene kan tåle det)

Nej det er jeg godt klar over, men der skulle jo gerne være fremgang,

hey jeg har samme problem lige nu hvor kan man købe medecin henne og hvorstort er et stort vandskift ?
kan fiskene tåle 30c ?

Hvide pletter har en livscyklus, en hvor de er på fisken og en hvor de formerer sig i bundlaget og så starter det hele om igen...
Denne flagellat kan ikke klare temperaturer over 30 grader gennem længere tid, så du kunne have sparet medicinen...
Hæv temperaturen til 31 grader i ca. 7 døgn, så burde de være døde alle.. sørg for evt. bedre gennemluftning hos fiskene og at overfladecirkulationen er optimal, da iltindholdet falder ved højere varmegrader...

#5


Kan mine fisk klare den høje temp?

Rød Juvel
Pragtsmerling
L200 & L128

vil det sige at det eneste man skal gøre er at sætte temp. op på 30-31 grader ?*uhh*

ja, som nævnt flagellaten der sætter sig på fisken kan ikke overleve gennem længere tid ved temp. over 30 grader, den dør slet og ret...

og sørger man for de nævnte forbehold altså at iltindholdet falder ved højere temperaturer og gør dem optimale som beskrevet i indlæg #5 så er det ikke noget problem .. Diskus holdes f.eks. ofte ved det antal grader...

Vil man gøre lidt ekstra ud af det, kan man tilsætte en smule brintoverilte i en uges tid, som opskriften i forbindelse med algebekæmpelse på min hjemmeside under tips og tricks til sidst i artiklen, det har nemlig også effekt overfor div. organiske emner der måtte være i akvariet... http://www.akvariegødning.dk/index.php/hjem/artikler/46/55.html

#7: nej da - en effektiv løsning er også en UV-behandling, som man kan styre, så den rammer protozoerne i de
fritsvømmende stadier.
Ex. 3 døgn med UV, slukket i 3 døgn og så tændt i 3 døgn igen.
Det er en behandling, som alle fisk kan tåle, og som ikke virker alt for ødelæggende på næringsoptaget for planterne.

kan fiskene tåle brintoverilte??

jeg gav mine en salt-kur sammen med faunamor - det hjalp på mine fisk 🙂

jeg har også prøvet med varmekuren og dem der var syge døde i løbet af de første 24 timer, resten klarede sig gennem kuren uden problemer og sygdommen kom ik igen efter det....

#11

Hov, det glemte jeg vist at sige 😀


Jeg har også givet dem et skud salt sammen med mit store vandskifte

#12

Nårh okay... 🙂

Har du prøvet med "medi-mor"...???

Det skulle være en all-round medicin mod lidt af hvert af sygdomme, den har jeg også brugt i et andet akvarie jeg har og den er også effektiv mod pletter:D

Hvis Faunamor ikke virker, kan det være fordi der er brug for en mere bredspektret medicin. Exit fra eSHa virker mod alle de paracitter, der giver prikker. Så hvis du ikke har et UV-filter, vil jeg klart anbefale at lave nogle store vandskift og prøve "Exit". Vær opmærksom på, at mange maller ikke tåler salt, og at en del maller (ifølge producenten selv) heller ikke tåler dobbelt dosis Faunamor. Held og lykke med det.

Det er videnskabeligt bevis at den ovennævnte varmekur virker...
her er flagellatens cyklus...


Flagellaten påvirker fiskens osmose system bl.a. ved at påvirke fiskens indhold af Natrium, Kalium og Magnesium....

Her er et uddrag af en alenlang omhandling af denne sygdom, der findes i to varianter, der stort set har nogenlunde det samme forløb, mens den ene art findes i ferskvand, er den anden aktuel i saltvand, multifiliis er den der optræder i ferskvand....
men her uddrag fra omhandlingen og omhandlende den medicinløse løsning, ganske vist på engelsk...
Physical treatments without the use of chemicals
The objective for the treatment of a disease
is to break the cycle of infection. In
I. multifiliis infection, the most vulnerable
stage is the free-swimming theront. The
trophont is located deep in the epidermis of
the fish and is protected from most agents
that are added to the water.
The simplest treatment is reduction or
removal of theronts. The repeated transfer
of fishes to different aquaria is effective.
Daily transfer for 5–7 days is usually sufficient
to break the cycle of infection
(Brown and Gratzek, 1980; Houghton and
Matthews, 1990). In large fish culture operations,
dilution is used if the fishes can be
placed in a raceway. A rapid flow of water
is maintained for a week to reduce the
number of theronts.
In closed fish culture systems where
the water is recycled, exposing the water to
ultraviolet light can control Ich infections.
The recycled water is passed through an
ultraviolet light sterilizer and exposed to
91,900 µW/cm before being cycled back
into the aquaria containing fish (Gratzek
et al., 1983).
Theronts are killed at temperatures
higher than 30°C. Maintenance of fishes at
these temperatures for a week will eliminate
infection. The water temperature should be
raised gradually to allow the fishes to acclimate
to the change. This treatment is often
combined with dilution. The use of elevated
temperatures to control Ich infection
is obviously unsuitable for coldwater
fishes.

Den medicinære del...
Chemotherapy
A variety of chemicals have been used for
treating I. multifiliis, none of which is universally
successful.
Sodium chloride was one of the first to
be used (Stiles, 1894), where it was reported
that theronts were killed instantly in saturated
salt solutions. Stiles (1894) proposed
creating a salt concentration gradient for use
as treatment. This can be done by placing
salt below a slotted or mesh floor in the
aquarium (Cross, 1972). The fishes tend to
stay in the upper portions of the aquarium.
When tomonts leave the fishes, they fall
into areas of high salt concentration and are
killed. Various concentrations of salt
(7000–20,000 ppm) have been suggested for
pond treatments (Kabata, 1985). In general,
salt treatment does not rapidly control the
infection and often does not completely
remove the parasite from the environment.
The use of salt may have an additional benefit,
however. Fishes infected with I. multifiliis
have decreased serum sodium and
magnesium (Hines and Spira, 1974b), and
sodium in the water may help fishes maintain
osmotic balance, thus reducing stress.
Formalin is a common treatment. Fishes
in aquaria are treated with 25 ppm (1 ml
formalin to 10 gallons of H2O) of formalin
on alternate days until the infection is
cleared. Usually the water is changed on
days between treatments. Pond fishes are
treated with 15 to 25 ppm (5 to 8 gallons of
formalin/acre foot water). Bath treatments
are also used; fishes are treated with
160–250 ppm formalin for 1 h daily until
mortality stops (Brown and Gratzek, 1980).
Care must be taken when formalin is used
in ponds in hot weather. If the formalin
kills the algae in the pond, the pond may be
depleted of oxygen (Cross, 1972) .
Malachite green has also been used,
either alone or in combination with formalin.
The zinc-free oxalate salt of malachite
green is the only form of the chemical that
is effective against Ichthyophthirius. Fish in
aquaria are treated with 0.1 ppm at 3- to
4-day intervals until the infection is
cleared. Carbon filters in the aquaria should
be removed during treatment. Aeration
must be maintained (Brown and Gratzek,
1980). Pond fishes are also treated with
0.1 ppm at 3- to 4-day intervals. Bath treatments
are done at 2 ppm for 30 min. Malachite
green is a suspected carcinogen and
must therefore be handled with care. It is
not approved for use on food fishes in the
USA because of the possibility of residual
contamination in tissues. When malachite
is used in combination with formalin, a
stock solution is prepared which consists of
14 g of malachite green dissolved in 1 gallon
of formalin. Fishes in aquaria are treated by
adding 1 ml of stock solution to 10 gallons of
water. The treatment is repeated three times
with a 3-day interval between each treatment
(Brown and Gratzek, 1980). Again,
aeration must be maintained, and carbon
filters removed. Raceways are treated
(1 ml/10 gallons) for 6 h daily and flushed
after each treatment. Ponds are treated at
3- to 4-day intervals. The mixture is usually
very effective, especially in treating fishes in
aquaria. The incorporation of malachite
green into fish food has been reported to be
effective against trophonts residing on the
fish (Schmahl et al., 1992a, 1996). The fish
must be healthy enough to eat for this
treatment to work.
Another chemical that has been successfully
used is potassium permanganate.
This is recommended for ponds (Brown and
Gratzek, 1980). The dose is 2 ppm (or less)
for scaleless fishes and 2–5 ppm for scaled
fishes. The effectiveness of potassium
permanganate is reduced by large amounts
of organic matter in the water.
A number of other chemicals have been
used; these include copper sulphate (Brown
and Gratzek, 1980; Straus, 1993), acriflavine,
quinine, mepacrine, mercury compounds
and chloramine-T (Cross, 1972). These have
not been consistently effective in controlling
Ichthyophthirius infections.
Attempts have been made to kill
trophonts on infected fishes. This approach
has been used to eliminate I. multifiliis from
fishes before they are introduced to a pond,
lake, river, aquarium, etc. A major problem
is that the mucus and overlying epithelium
prevent access of chemicals to the parasite.
Three approaches – hyperosmotic shock,
vacuum infiltration and surfactant immersion
– were tested as a means of delivering
drugs to trophonts in the skin. None of the
procedures was effective (Post and Vesely,
1983). Toltrazuril was found to reach
trophonts embedded in the skin of fishes
(Mehlhorn et al., 1988). Immersion of fishes
in water containing 10 µg/ml of the drug for
4 h (repeated daily for 3 days) killed fishassociated
parasites. This treatment was
only effective against trophonts and did not
kill theronts. Another triazinone, HOE 092 V,
formulated as a water-soluble preparation,
was also effective against trophonts in carp
and cardinal tetras (Paracheirodon axelrodi)
when applied once as a medicated bath at
the same concentration and exposure time as
toltrazuril (Schmahl et al., 1992b). Quinine
has also been used as a food additive
(Schmahl et al., 1996).
Control of I. multifiliis outbreaks requires
good animal husbandry and management in
addition to the use of therapeutic agents.
Dead fishes should be removed as soon as
they are found because trophonts begin to
drop off and encyst within hours. Aquaria
should be scrubbed and water recycled
through a diatomaceous earth filter (Brown
and Gratzek, 1980). This will dislodge and
remove developing cysts and theronts from
the aquaria. In raceways where the water flow
can be increased, the bottoms should be
swept daily. This will dislodge developing
cysts and many will be flushed out in the
water flow. In shallow ponds, sweeping the
bottom will bury some cysts while others
attached to the suspended bottom material
can be flushed out by increasing the water
flow (Brown and Gratzek, 1980).
Aquaria, ponds and raceways should
be drained, cleaned and allowed to dry after
an outbreak. Drying kills the parasite. The
bottom of a dried pond should be treated
with lime. If ponds cannot be drained completely,
the residual water should be treated
with a disinfectant such as calcium
hypochlorite (Brown and Gratzek, 1980).

indtil videre har det kostet 3 store pragtsmerlinger, 2 L200 maller samt 3 sajica cichlider.


min akva pusher anbefalede idag at jeg skulle bruge Esha 2000 hvilket jeg så har købt, men ikke puttet i endnu, hvad siger i?

eSHa 2000 er eSHa´s medicin mod svamp og bakterielle infektioner. Deres medicin mod fiskedræber og andre "prik-/plet-sygdomme" hedder Exit.

hvordan undgår man så hvidepletter så man ikke for det i sit akvarie ?

Tjah, hvis man vil være helt sikker på ikke at få smitten ind med nyindkøbte fisk, er man nød til at have et karantæne-akvarie, hvor alle nye fisk går de første uger.

kan de ikke stadig få det nå de bliver flyttet over fra karantæne akvariet til det normale med de andre ?

Nye fisk kan være smittet uden man kan se det, men det vil kunne ses ret hurtigt, og så kan man jo nøjes med at behandle i karantæne-akvariet.

Det er rigtigt nok. Hvor lang tid skal man lade dem gå i karantæne ?

Tjahh... man kan gøre flere forskellige ting, jf. det jeg smed ind ovenfor på udensognsk.. men det nemmeste vil helt sikkert være at smide dem i en balje for sig og øge temperaturen til godt 30 grader i 7 dage, så er de flagellater der måtte have været døde og fiskene kan flyttes...

eller skal man som der også er nævnt og som Jery nævnte behandle med uv-lys
eller flytte fiskene mellem nogle akvarier også i en uge cyklus, men det kræver jo man har et vist antal fri til formålet..

eller som sidste mulighed have dem i et strømanlæg, hvor flagellaterne bliver spulet væk efterhånden som de forlader fisken, hvilket nok er de færreste muligt...

alternativt medicin, men min oplevelse med det er at det har alt for svingende virkning og når man opdager at det ikke rigtigt funker så er det som oftest forsent at gøre mere...
så for den jævne akvarist vil jeg mene at varmekuren er den billigste der skal ikke investeres noget særligt et varmelegeme har de fleste i forvejen...